Hey there folks. The Great Smoky Mountains National Park is one of the most well-known parks in the whole US. And there are two missing person’s cases within that park which have ingrained themselves in the public conscience. They are Dennis Martin and Treny Gibson.

Now, I’ve covered the Dennis Martin case extensively on this channel and I think nowadays most people are aware that there used to be a lot of misinformation about that case and it’s not nearly as mysterious as it was made out to be. with Treny Gibson. I’ve done one video on her case and I was unable to develop a strong theory as to what happened.

I think the first video was mainly about showing that nothing paranormal was going on, which sadly is something that is often suggested. One of the big problems with the Treny Gibson case is that there has been a lack of hard evidence and an abundance of rumors and hearsay from those close to her case, especially her classmates. So, in this video, I’m going to cover some new evidence recently released by Michael Buchard in his new book on the case.

This evidence may finally reveal a suspect in the Treny Gibson disappearance. Meaning, whatever happened to Treny, it was no accident. Now, I can’t positively, without a shadow of a doubt, say that this suspect is the person who murdered Treny.

One of the reasons for this, and you’re going to see what I mean, is that much of this evidence is currently dependent on a single witness, that being Treny’s mother, Hope Gibson. Later in this video, you’ll hear a recorded interview I did with Hope, and to my knowledge, it’s the only one she’s ever given on her daughter’s case. Despite her age, she’s still very sharp and remembers everything extremely well.

If you care about this case, you’re going to want to hear what she has to say because it’s quite shocking. Her testimony combined with the new evidence is very compelling. In the end, you will have to decide whether or not there is enough evidence here to say that the suspect I’m going to name is the one responsible for Treny’s death.

Now, the really unfortunate part about all of this is that there is information out there that I cannot publish in this video. Despite Trreny being missing for decades, the FBI still refuses to release their files on her case. But I have it on pretty good authority that the information in those files reinforces everything you’re going to hear in this video.

The FBI apparently messed this one up pretty bad and they don’t want it coming back to haunt them. Obviously, my argument to them would be that the FBI 50 years ago was completely different. All those people are dead and nobody would be surprised that the FBI in the 1970s was engaged in coverups or bungled some cases.

So, please release the files and maybe they will someday with enough pressure. Okay. So, I’m going to do a basic overview of the story of Treny Gibson and the day she disappeared in the Smokies. I’m going to keep it simple since I’ve already covered this before in detail. And while I’m doing that, I’m also going to blend in this new information and the theory profered by Buchard.

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com/tme to get up to 20% off during Raycon’s holiday season sale. That’s byracon.com/tme for up to 20% off. And thanks again to Raycon for sponsoring this video. [Music] In 1976, Trreny Lynn Gibson was a 16-year-old girl living in Knoxville, Tennessee.

She lived in a home on White Tower Road that was just large enough to house both of her parents and a number of siblings. Her father, Bob Gibson, was the director of personnel development for Malttar International Corporation, and he was also a member of the National Guard. His work often required him to be away on business for a couple of weeks every month. Her mother was Hope Gibson, a homemaker and devout Christian.

Treny’s siblings included an older brother, Bob Jr., who was 19 and in the military, a younger sister, Tina, who was 14, and a younger brother, Miracle, who was five. Treny’s household was well structured with daily chores given to all children who were capable.

Some who knew Treny suggested that her family was too strict. According to Hope Gibson, Treny never went over to any of her classmates homes and none of them ever came over to her home. Hope said that this wasn’t because Treny wasn’t allowed, but that she loved and was happy to be at home.

By contrast, Treny’s sister, Tina, was one who was more social and often left the house or had people over. Treny attended the local Bearden High School, where despite being shy, she still had a number of school friends. People she hung out with while at school, but rarely at any other time. Prior to her disappearance, there was one incident that is often talked about as being relevant.

We can’t know for sure if it is, but for the sake of being thorough, let’s go over it really quick. This version of the story will be from the recollections of Hope Gibson, the only living witness to this incident. On the evening of October 11th, 1975, nearly a year to the day before Treny went missing, Hope Gibson was quietly relaxing in her second floor bedroom.

This piece was interrupted by someone suddenly shouting her son’s name outside. Hope went to a nearby window and noticed a shadowy figure standing outside the house. It appeared to Hope that the man was trying to break into the window below her, so she immediately sprung into action. She grabbed a 357 Magnum revolver and went back to the window. At this point, she opened her window and looked for the figure.

All she saw was a pair of legs protruding from her son’s bedroom window directly below her. She fired one shot, hitting the individual in the leg. Mrs. Gibson then started heading downstairs when she encountered Treny standing on the staircase.

Below in the living room, she found an intoxicated man behind her couch, raising his hands in surrender and begging for his life. This man was Kelvin Lee Bowman, and he also went to Bearden High School with Hope’s children. Hope recognized Kelvin as he would sometimes hang out with her son Bob Jr. Instead of calling the police, Hope led the wounded Kelvin out of her house and told him to leave.

He would later be seen walking down the road by neighbors while yelling that he had been shot. Kelvin would eventually make it to a hospital and doctors were the ones to contact authorities since they had a victim with a gunshot wound. This led to an investigation by the Knoxville Sheriff’s Department, and in the end, Kelvin Bowman would be sentenced to a 9-month term in a juvenile prison.

Hope Gibson was present at court during the sentencing and claims that Kelvin walked past her and mumbled that he would kill Triny as some sort of revenge. So, Hope Gibson’s account of what happened is that Kelvin Bowman was trying to get into Bob Jr.’s room when she shot him in the leg.

But before Kelvin Bowman died recently, I think last year, he did give his side of the story in text messages that I’ve seen. His version is that he went to the house that night to see Treny and that they had been seeing each other for some time. He said that while Treny was letting him in the window, Hope shot him in the leg.

According to Kelvin, he held no grudge against Treny, but rather one against Hope since she was the one that shot him. This is the first example of a situation where we have conflicting testimony. So, who do we believe? There are notable things to point out in this event. For example, if Kelvin was there to see Treny, why was he shot while climbing into Bob Jr.

‘s room? He had been seeing Treny at night for some time, at least according to him. Additionally, why would he be outside drunk and calling Bob Jr.’s name if he was there for Treny? On the flip side, if Hope is correct and Kelvin was there to see Bob Jr., then what was the point of that? Why would Kelvin be sneaking into Bob’s room in the middle of the night while drunk to hang out? It’s a bit unusual. I’ve heard nothing that explains what happened from Bob Jr.

‘s perspective, like if he knew Kelvin was coming or why he would want to visit in the first place. To me, someone sneaking in a room at night like this, it’s something boys generally do when they want to see girls. So, it does kind of sound like Kelvin was going to see Treny, and I don’t know what reason he would have to lie about it decades later.

In Hope’s version, she said that Kelvin was heavily intoxicated, which might explain why he mixed up which window to go in. But with these two stories so conflicted, it’s hard to know where to land. Now, I realize we haven’t even got to the disappearance yet, and we’re spending time on this, but that’s because Kelvin Bowman has often been considered a suspect.

He had a motive because he was shot and did jail time after this little incident. His athletic career came to an end from the gunshot wound, and Hope claims he threatened Treny’s life. Many people would call that motive. Going after Treny could be a way to get back at Hope if he was angry enough to do anything.

Because of that, Kelvin cannot be ruled out entirely. But there’s a big problem. Kelvin’s whereabouts during Treny’s disappearance are wellnown. He was in school and was verified to be there by the principal. So, if the principal is correct, then whatever happened to Treny, it would appear that Kelvin could not physically have been responsible.

Still, it’s important to know who he is and his relevance to the Gibson family because his name will come up later. All right, with all that out of the way, let’s move on to the field trip to the Smokies. On the day of October 8th, 1976, Triny’s class was gearing up for a planned mystery field trip to the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Nobody knew the exact destination within the park until the day it happened.

Their mystery trip was to a place called Andrews Bald, and their hike would begin at the Clingman’s Dome parking lot. To get there, you have to travel on the Newf Found Gap Road and then make a turn onto Klingman’s Dome Road. This road hugs the Appalachin Trail closely until it eventually reaches the parking lot and trail head.

At this point, they plan to hike the Forny Ridge Trail south to Andrew’s Bald. The trail runs along the top of the steep Forn’s Ridge and is roughly 3 mi round trip. Other trails in the area lead north towards Klingman’s Dome, a popular observation tower, which subsequently connects to the Appalachin Trail.

These areas, however, were not intended to be part of the hike. The journey to Andrew’s Bald was part of a horiculture class that Treny was taking at Bearden High School, and it was led by a teacher called Wayne Dunlap. Mr. Dunlap would wind up being the only person chaperoning the 33 students who would end up going on this excursion after he failed to secure any additional parents to help.

Treny left home that day wearing a blue shirt, a blue and white sweatshirt, blue jeans, and a star sapphire and diamond ring. Hope Gibson drove Treny to school that day. There was some uncertainty as to whether the field trip would even happen because inclement weather was expected and it seemed as though there was a high likelihood it could be cancelled. Treny, thinking that it would be cancelled, decided not to bring a coat as they drove to school.

When the duo pulled up to Beardarden High, Treny went inside the school to verify if the field trip was still on. When Treny returned, she was with a man named Robert Simpson Jr. Simpson was a friend of Treny’s brother, Bob Jr. So, he had some familiarity with the Gibson family. He had gone to football games with Bob Jr., but he was not known for being Treny’s friend.

As Treny approached the car, she informed her mother that the field trip was indeed happening and there was no need to run home and get a coat because Robert Simpson had loaned her his. Hope recalled that Treny was wearing a brown checkered chief petty officer or CPO coat. Robert Simpson was significantly larger than Treny.

He was somewhere around 6 feet tall and 225 lb, while she was 5’3 and 115 lb. When she wore his coat, it was so large that it extended down to her knees. Before Trreny walked away for the final time, Hope Gibson gave her her favorite black Stanley rat tail comb, which she had just cleaned that morning. Hope saw her daughter run the comb through her hair and then put it in her back pocket.

It is said that Treny rarely parted with this comb, and the only other person who could even touch it was her mother. Around 9:00 a.m., 33 students walked onto a school bus, ready to set out on their trip. Mr. Dunlap laid out the plans for the day. They would drive to Clingman’s Dome parking lot, then hike the trail out to Andrew’s Bald, and returned to the bus. Mr.

Dunlap put strict rules in place that no one was to stray from the trail or take any side trails. During the hike, the students were to observe the trees and plant life that they encountered along the way. The plan was to have everyone back on the bus by 3:30 p.m.

During the roughly 2-hour bus ride, Treny sat next to Robert Simpson Jr. Reportedly, they talked and joked along with other students, and there was never any hint that anything was a miss. The bus would arrive at Klingman’s Dome parking lot around 12:30 p.m. According to Mr. Dunlap, the group left Klingman’s Dome parking lot shortly after 12:30, heading towards the trail that led to Andrew’s bald. Mr.

Dunlap had reminded everyone to take their coats with them as the day was cold and overcast and to remember to meet back at the bus at 3:30 p.m. All of the students broke out into separate groups and packs. Treny reportedly continued to stick with Robert Simpson Jr. After a while, students were spread out across the trail, all heading towards Andrews Bald.

Because the students were all going at their own pace, some arrived at Andrews Bald earlier, some later, and some left the bald earlier or later. What we do know is that Treny was last seen on the Forny Creek Trail by a few students, Anita Rounds, Bobby Cogill, and Scott Troy. The time was roughly 2:50 p.m. and Treny was quickly heading back towards the bus, passing groups of students as she went.

Anita said that she and the others decided to stop and rest, but Treny was determined to keep going. Anita stated that she was watching Treny continue and it looked as if she had gone right off the trail. She clarified this statement by saying that another student, David Eastham, came up behind her, so she turned to look at him. But when she turned back around, Treny was not there.

Another student who was present, Bobby Cogill, said that it looked like Treny bent over on the trail as if examining something near a flat rock before she simply vanished. They all assumed that they would see Treny again on the bus. When 3:30 p.m. rolled around and all of the students had returned to the parking lot, Mr.

Dunlap did a head count and quickly noticed that he was short one student, Treny Gibson. His first reaction was to search the trails. So he sent a student named Danny Johnson down to Andrews Bald while he walked out towards Double Springs, a location to the northwest. Mr.

Dunlap probably made this decision on the assumption that Trreny missed the turn back to the parking lot. During this time, the students were told to stay put in the parking lot and maybe spend some time searching it, but to never leave the area. Danny Johnson did not find any trace of Treny. Mr. Dunlap, however, saw tennis shoe tracks about Treny’s size on the Appalachin Trail and heading towards Double Spring Shelter.

He lost the trail approximately half a mile past the intersection of the Appalachin Trail and the trails to Forny Creek and Andrews Bald. The search for Treny begins quickly after she vanishes. And there are some detailed records of how things unfolded hour by hour, but I’m not going to get into much of that because in the end, Treny wasn’t found.

Really, very little evidence at all was found. The only thing I’ll mention is that multiple dogs searching for Treny’s scent caught a positive hit along the trail from Klingman’s Dome Tower heading towards the Collins Gap. And to be clear, the search dogs are detecting a trail from this area and heading east northeast up the trail to Collins Gap where the trail essentially hugs the road.

The validity of these scent trails will be discussed later as there was a lot of rain that hit the region both during and after the disappearance, possibly affecting scent trails in this region. I did also find a mention of a dog picking up Treny’s scent at Andrews Bald and heading north along the Forny Creek Trail. So, just one confirmed hit there. And that scent trail is something you would expect because we know for a certainty that Triny walked that way.

The strange part is that multiple dogs, at least three, I think, picked up Treny’s scent further up to the north, heading along the Appalachin Trail and then out to the road. That trail is very noteworthy because it’s in an area you wouldn’t expect her to be in. And the trail stopping at a road might be indicative of someone getting into a car.

During the search, only four of Treny’s classmates actually came out to help, but I only want to focus on two. Robert Simpson Jr. came and helped since he was an experienced hunter and his friend Gary Nichols also joined him. While combing the MPS archives, Michael Buchard discovered an old newspaper photograph that actually featured both men in the search area.

I’ve encountered no other researcher of this case who was aware of this photograph’s existence. Now, let’s dive into Bousard’s new theory as to what happened here. I’ll begin with his most important point, and you may have somehow caught it already if you’re very astute. Hope Gibson was not allowed in the search area after her daughter went missing.

The authorities said that her presence would only create a distraction and that she should let the crews do their work. But because Hope was never actually on scene, she never saw Robert Simpson Jr. when he was there helping to search. When Mike Buchard found this newspaper photograph in the archives showing Robert Simpson Jr.

, a photo none of us had ever seen before, he realized that Robert Simpson was wearing a checkered CPO coat, the exact same coat that Treny reportedly disappeared in. Prior to this, there had been rumors that somehow Robert Simpson was seen wearing the coat again after Treny’s disappearance, but it was all unverifiable, perhaps until now.

Mike Bousard thought that this photograph might be a key piece of evidence to prove those rumors true. There are very few people alive today who remember seeing Treny in that coat, and Hope Gibson is one of them, as she saw Treny wearing the coat next to Simpson Jr. when she saw her daughter for the last time.

When Buchard showed the picture to Hope Gibson, Hope said that this is the same CPO coat that Treny was wearing the last time she saw her. And remember, since this testimony is so important, you will hear it from Hope a little later. But if Simpson is wearing the coat that he gave to Treny, it would seem to implicate him in her disappearance. Now, the idea that Robert Simpson Jr.

would be dumb enough to join the search while wearing the coat is, well, let’s just say I’m a little bit on the fence about it. Wouldn’t someone notice? I suppose it all depends on whether or not anyone was present who would make the connection. and very few students from Beardarden High actually came out to help. This was the 1970s and the NPS was not like it is today.

Most of the searchers were untrained volunteers living in the area, including the dogs. If Simpson is wearing the coat that he gave to Triny, his movements during the search could have thrown the dogs off quite a bit by creating entirely new scent trails.

I’ll have Mike Bousard defend some of these points later because I do have a lot of questions. Anyway, another odd point that Buchard picked up on is this fellow classmate Gary Nichols who is standing next to Simpson in the photo. In the newspaper, Gary Nichols talks to reporters as if he was on the trip. He speaks of seeing Treny and even talking to her.

The problem here is that there is no evidence that Gary Nichols was ever amongst the students. You see, after this whole fiasco happened, the Gibson family sued the school for losing their daughter during the field trip. During those court proceedings, the school was forced to draw up a list of the names and addresses of every child on that field trip.

These are photographs of that list from the lawsuit. That’s 32 names of everybody who was on that bus besides Treny. Gary Nichols name is not on that list. So why is he talking to the newspaper reporters as though he was there? Keep in mind that Nicholls is there at the search with Robert Simpson Jr.

who Hope Gibson says is wearing the coat that Treny disappeared in. This associate of Robert Simpson is placing himself on the trail with Treny when he shouldn’t have been there at all. That is all very suspicious. But there is more. On October 9th, as the search was just kicking off, Robert Simpson Jr.

was at the Sugarland Ranger Station with other members of the team, including Robert Gibson, senior, Treny’s father. Simpson overheard Treny’s father talking about picking his son Bob Jr. up from the airport. Bob Jr. had been going through military boot camp at the time, but once he heard that his sister was missing, he was quickly on a flight heading home.

When Simpson heard this, he volunteered to go and pick Bob Jr. up from the airport himself. Treny’s father knew that Simpson and Bob Jr. were friends, so he allowed him to do this seemingly good deed. Afterwards, Simpson drove out to the airport, picked Bob Jr. up and almost as soon as he got into the car, Bob Jr.

noticed that Treny’s black comb was on the dashboard of the vehicle. Bob Jr. took the comb from Simpson, who made the excuse that Treny had left it in his car at some point. After the flight, Bob Jr. had not been feeling well, so Simpson took him home immediately. By that time, it was late at night, and Bob Jr. allowed Simpson to stay over at the Gibson residence. As the two were getting ready for bed, Bob Jr.

watched as Simpson took off his pants and noticed that he had vertical scratch marks on both of his thighs, extending down from his groin towards his knees. To Bob Jr., they looked like the claw marks a human might make. When Bob Jr. asked Simpson how he got the scratches, Simpson said that they came from walking through the thick brush in the woods during the search. Bob Jr. felt that this story made little sense.

He also did not think brush could puncture Simpson’s heavy work pants. The next day, Bob Jr. brought the comb to his mother straight away. He also told her about the scratches. Hope immediately saw the relevance and became very suspicious of Simpson Jr. Hope said that she turned the comb into a park ranger the following day while telling them that it should have been in Treny’s possession when she went missing.

A week later, a different park ranger returned to the comb and told her that there was nothing they could do with it. Hope brought the same evidence to the FBI. the comb and the scratches, but said that the FBI never got back to her about their investigation into either one of those things.

This is far from the only strange behavior exhibited by Simpson following Treny’s disappearance. In the MPS case file, there is a report that speaks of an interview with Tina Gibson, Treny’s sister. Tina said that Simpson showed up at the Gibson residence around 10 p.m. on October 11th, only a couple days into the disappearance. At the time, Tina was alone at the house since everyone was out searching for Treny.

Tina said that she saw Simpson use the house phone to contact an unknown female in order to obtain information on Treny and that he used his father’s name and title as leverage. Simpson also suggested that perhaps Kelvin Bowman had Treny and that if he did, he would kill her.

She then told detectives that Simpson had come by earlier in the day as well around 11:00 a.m. On that visit, he mentioned the Telico Mountains and their natural features and that he had a jeep. He then suggested that may have run off with a horny hitchhiker. Tina said that Simpson was carrying a hunting knife that he taped to his leg.

In fact, I think we might actually be able to see this hunting knife in the newspaper photograph of Simpson where he is wearing the CPO coat. So, all of this stuff might seem kind of random, but let’s add a bit of context and speculation. This whole situation that Tina is describing is downright weird.

When Simpson stopped by her home, she was alone because both of her parents were at search headquarters, waiting for any news. To make things stranger, Simpson had never really come over to the house in this fashion before. He had stopped by briefly, maybe once or twice, when going to a sports game with Bob Jr., but he never really went inside and hung around before.

Yet, after Treny disappears, he shows up. Tina is alone and he starts throwing out all of this random speculation, suggesting Kelvin Bowman may be responsible or that she ran off with a horny hitchhiker. After this happened, the Gibsons brought Tina straight to investigators to have her tell them what Simpson had said. To me, that is a very important point.

It’s contemporary evidence showing that the family was suspicious of Simpson Jr. even back then. Lastly, I want to point out how wild it is that Simpson Jr. is just all over the place after Treny disappears. I mean, he’s driving around everywhere.

He stays as close to the Gibson family as possible, which is highly unusual because he wasn’t really good friends with Treny, as has often been assumed. yet. He’s at the Ranger Station listening in on what the parents are learning. He’s picking up Bob Jr. from the airport. He’s running over to the Gibson residence to speak to Tina. If he was good friends with Treny, you might say that he was just trying to be helpful.

Hope Gibson claims that the two were never friends. And if that’s true, I tend to wonder if he was out fishing for information. It’s something worth considering. Now, you might be wondering, if all of this is correct and a good portion of this testimony is coming from Hope Gibson, then why didn’t the FBI investigate, question, or even potentially arrest Robert Simpson Jr.

? Well, there might be a reason for that. Simpson’s father was Robert Simpson senior, a longtime assistant US attorney for the Eastern District. When he retired, he was the longest serving AUSA in the nation. The Great Smoky Mountains National Park, where this all took place, was part of his jurisdiction.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that if an investigation implicated his son, he could shut it down. Simpson Jr. was apparently not above dropping his daddy’s name if he was trying to get his way with something. Tina even referenced that type of behavior when she talked to investigators.

So, now that you have the facts and evidence used to support this theory, and to be clear, this theory is saying that Robert Simpson Jr. assaulted Treny Gibson while out on this field trip hike. Treny then scratched him when his pants were down and escaped. And later, Simpson must have caught up to her by skirting along the trail or something else and then pulled her off trail and into the forest, eventually killing her.

The rain that occurred during the disappearance destroyed much of Treny’s original scent trail. And Simpson wearing the CPO coat during the search created a whole new scent trail which threw off the dogs. So now that we have that understanding, I have a lot of questions.

I also think it’s important to hear much of this stuff from Hope’s own mouth as so much of this is dependent on her testimony. So I’m going to show you a conversation I had with three people. The first is Mike Bousuchard, who’s been on this channel more than a few times, so I don’t suppose he needs much of an introduction. He is a current police officer in Connecticut, and he is also an author of numerous books on cold cases.

Love him or hate him, he does a lot of leg work tracking down and interviewing witnesses. The second is Rob Davis, who has worked in the military and law enforcement, and he is also an expert in the handling of canines for search and rescue. Lastly, you’re going to hear from Treny’s mother, Hope.

I tried to get her on using Zoom, but uh that was unsuccessful, so she’s on the phone. Hope was also not feeling very well on this day, so I tried to keep it short and go through my questions as quickly as possible. Anyway, I’ll stop blathering and show you our conversation. Uh the main thing I I I want to start with is um Triny’s relationship to Robert Simpson Jr.

Uh cuz that’s always been a bit of a confusing topic for those who know about Treny’s case. It’s often said that they were friends, but what do you know about that? Did they hang out much? Uh what was their relationship like? They had no relationship. She had never even mentioned him. They had there was no relationship. She he was just he just they went to the same schools.

He was uh friends with Bob Jr. and he he came over one time to go to the ball game with Bob Junior. He was there not more than 10 minutes. I could take you to the spot if we were there right now where he stood at the bar downstairs in the kitchen. Okay. And that but uh anyway, no sir, there was no relationship but she was just with him because she felt like he would could uh she trusted him to protect or something in in that order because she’d never been anywhere but herself. Okay.

She went nowhere by herself. She was always with her brother and her sister or just her sister. So, so Triny, she she never really ever talked to you about Robert Simpson. Is that right? So, she never even had expressed any misgivings around him, called him a shady kind of guy. She never spoke about him at all. No, no, no.

She She was not that type person. She wouldn’t even have said that if she had thought it. She would just I mean, she was kind to everybody. She didn’t talk like that. No. Gotcha. So, on the day that Triny disappeared, you gave her a ride to school, correct? And then, uh, when you dropped her off at school, uh, you handed her a comb, right? and and then she went inside to go make sure the last thing that I got to do for her besides kiss her goodbye was to hand her her comb.

I purchased one for her, one for her sister, a seven seven and a half inch comb from Stanley and I handed it to her. Yes, sir. The last thing I got to do for her before she shut the door. Well, she she ran inside the school, right, to make sure that the the field trip was still on. And then did she come back outside with Robert Simpson and she was wearing his coat.

Is that how it went? Okay. She walked inside the door. I was sitting where I could see her go all the way to the door, which was about 30 yards away, 25, 30 yards away from me. And she went in to see if it was still on. Yes, sir. And she came back out with him wearing the coat. Okay. I watched her all the way till she got to me.

Watched them both. And that coke swallowed her. Oh, it came um almost to her knees. Okay. It was It was open. It was a zipper coat. Okay. So, yes, sir. I saw her in that coat. I also recognized that coat. It jumped off the page at me, you know, in the newspaper. In the newspaper already.

So, when Mike showed you the newspaper picture, you you recognized that coat? Yes, sir. It It just took my breath away. I couldn’t believe it had been there 40 or 50 years and no and nothing been done, nothing said about it, you know. Oh boy. I can imagine that would be quite shocking. Um Oh, you’re not kidding. It was more than shocking, you know. Yeah.

So, were you surprised to see Treny even with Robert Simpson Jr. that day that he had even loaned her his coat? Was that all kind of weird to you? Oh, I was. Oh, I was. excited because we were see I just lived about 5 minutes from the school and I’d told her about if they’re going to neither of us expected them even to go and uh I told her that if uh if they went that we’d run back to the house real quick and get her coat and so that was he he came he made sure he came to the door ahead of her so he could tell me all about Okay, that that was just I that should have said something to me. I don’t I trust people too much, I

think. So, the the comb again is something people always say that it’s an item that Treny would never have given away or loaned to somebody. Is that your understanding as well? Right, honey. She would No one No one ever touched anything that belonged to Triny. It just it was everybody just knew that it was Triny’s.

You don’t touch tr things. Uh nobody she was a very orderly u meticulous person that was everything just had to be so so and in its own order in its proper place. And uh no, no, she would never hand her comb ever. Nobody ever that I knew of before that happened ever even touched her comb or had any reason to as far as I know.

But but u and everybody knew that she carried it in her back pocket. So So Treny wouldn’t even let you touch the comb. She kept it close so much. Is that right? Well, she I could have touched it or anytime I wanted to. She didn’t care for me doing it. Okay. You know, but somebody else No way. Gotcha. I I just want people to know what the real facts that went on because nobody’s known.

Everything’s made up facts and lies, you know. I agree. You know, it’s well, that’s what we’re trying to kind of get to the bottom of here is like, you know, the Rob a lot of people assume that Robert Simpson Jr. was friends with Treny. And another reason they assume that is because she sat with him on the bus ride uh on the field trip and then she walked with him out to Andrew’s bald.

And are are you under the impression that he was doing that out of like kind of this protector thing that he was doing or did Treny have any other friends in class that she presumably should have been hanging out with instead? Like why do you think Robert Simpson Jr. was the one that she stayed with all day? Well, he he was the one that that gave her the coat and no doubt asked her to sit with him.

But uh Triny was not a person that she was just um interested in going to school. And the only reason she wanted to go to begin with was because she wanted to study and be a landscape architect when she went to UT. Okay, that was the only reason she had never been on any type of field trip and or never asked to go.

She was satisfied with being at home with family, watching Little House on the Prairie, you know, stuff like that. and with her dog Mity. She had had Mity since 1969 and uh she took her with her everywhere she went. So So that was she was she was a very unusual person compared to the regular normal teenager, you know. Did she have many friends especially in that in that? No, no.

Just I mean when she went to school there, you know, she was friendly with everybody and uh did school things, but she had she had never had taken part with any clubs, any any special anything that was at the school. She she didn’t. Now the other two, her brother and sister did they took part in everything, not training. She was satisfied with reading and studying at home. So if she’s on the field trip and she doesn’t have a close friend in that class, it’s Do you think it’s fully possible that Simpson Jr.

just kind of targeted her as someone he could get close to? Definitely. Definitely. I think he had plans from the very start. Now, that’s just what I I don’t know that for a fact. I can’t prove it, but that is just how I feel about it. That he had plans from the beginning really. Okay. I want to move forward in time a little bit after Treny has disappeared and the search is kind of happening.

Um, it it it sounds like Simpson Jr. was always he was he was kind of everywhere. Sometimes he would be at a ranger station where your ex-husband was. Sometimes he’d be at your house. Did you notice that you saw him around a lot and was that kind of weird? Well, now I was I stayed at the ranger station and at the motel.

So I did not I had no idea that he was going to my house answering my phone. I got that when Tina made that testimony to the to the park service and when she told me u I had no idea that he was even doing that. God, Joseph. But but whenever I did know that he had picked up my son, my son Bob Jr. from the airport when he came in from the Navy and I knew that he did pick him up and took him then home. And Bob Jr.

was sick whenever he got in. Had to go to the doctor then it that week. But anyway, um supposedly he wanted to stay the night and make sure that Bob Jr. was okay. So, well, prior to that, pri prior to that, is it not true that when Robert Simpson Jr. went to go pick up your son, Bob Jr., you’re at the airport and then they were driving back um to your house.

Didn’t uh your son notice Treny’s comb on his dashboard. And the first thing soon as he got in the car? Yes. First thing. Okay. Yes. And And how how did your son know that it was Treny’s comb? Was because a Stanley rat tail comb. He he knew everything that Trreny had. They knew everything he had because when they went to purchase anything, they all three would go together and the the other two, Bob Jr. and Trina wouldn’t buy anything if Triny didn’t like it.

Okay. So, that’s exactly the answer I wanted. Okay. Okay. Well, you got it, honey. You got it. Boy, she knows that to be fact, let me tell you. That’s right. And and and you were able to identify the comb comb when you saw it when it was given to you. Yes. Then when I bought it, it looked like if I saw it right this minute, I would know the tone. Okay.

And when you talked to your son later, what what what did uh what did Simpson Jr. What was his excuse for having Chinese comb in his car? Oh, she had loaned it to him and as a matter of fact, he he had combed his filthy greasy air with it and it was it was covered in in that grease, black grease. I almost threw up. Pardon? So, did did Bob Jr.

Did that set off some red flag when you talked to him? Did he did that set off some red flags in his mind that cuz I’m assuming he knew Traine wouldn’t let her comb out of her hands. So, was he kind of thinking that this is odd that Trreny’s comb would be found here in Simpson Jr.’s vehicle? No, he No, he knew that there was something that he recognized that there had to be more to it.

He knew he had absolutely no doubt that Triny had loaned her comb to nobody. He knew that. So, so he’s already kind of on high alert when he gets picked up by Simpson. better believe it. And then when he saw those scratch marks, he from then on he he knew he knew. Let’s talk about that. So, um they uh your son wasn’t feeling well, so they went back to your house and Simpson Jr.

was going to stay the night and I guess the he was undressing getting into his boxer shorts or something and your son saw scratch marks on Simpson Jr.’s ‘s thighs like vertical scratch marks, right? Uh up and down the insides of his legs. Yes, sir. And uh when your son asked him how he got those, what did he say? Oh, he he he had gotten them in the woods from the flowers. And that was his his answer.

Oh, he had he had gotten them in the in the woods. And did uh in the woods? Okay. But anyway, did did your son buy that excuse? No. No, he didn’t buy it. That’s the reason he came to me straight. That was the reason he came straight to me and told me he and Mom made he’s got scratch marks up and down inside his legs. So, you got a series of things here.

You got the comb being found in Simpson Jr.’s car. You got the scratch marks on his legs. You have your daughter who was at home alone while the search was going on. And then Robert Simpson shows up and he’s there asking her questions and answering your telephone.

Did all these things just set off alarm bells in your head that this guy might be a suspect? Yeah. Yes. And we kept telling them and trying to get him investigated and oh, he was too young. They told us I mean just rubbed it off like no big deal really. So you went to I know at the time I don’t know at the times that we tried to get them to question him. Yeah.

So you went to the NPS or the FBI multiple times with this evidence and they didn’t care. Oh to to both. Wow. To both. My husband went to both. That’s incredible. Did you ever think of trying to I don’t know take this public? maybe talk to newspaper or the media to get this information out. I No, I didn’t. There was media all over the place.

So, I just I just thought that it would be taken care of. I I had no idea that it would just be pushed aside, pushed, you know, and and the excuse that the NPS or the FBI was giving you was simply that they thought Simpson Jr. was too young to have done anything. He Oh, he was too young to be No, not to done anything but to for them to question.

Oh, interesting. Uhhuh. And do you think they were too young to be questioned? They couldn’t question him. They just flat out told us that they couldn’t question because he was so young. Yeah. And were you aware of who Simpson Jr’s father was at this time back then? Yes, sir.

Did did it did you think back then that maybe they were afraid to do anything because he had a powerful daddy? Uh well that thought it was entered into our minds. But we just trusted the FBI to do what they said they would do. They stood in the center of Triny’s bedroom, looked me straight in the eye and says there’ll be no stone unturned. Okay. Wow.

Um, so I just I’ll have one more thing and then if Mike wants to ask you anything if you But I just want to get it one more time. When you saw that picture when you saw that picture uh the newspaper photograph of Robert Simpson wearing that large coat, you are without a doubt certain that is the same coat you saw Treny wearing the last time you saw her. Uh there is no doubt in my mind that she had she was wearing I mean that was an immediate when I saw that coat of exactly what what coat it was who it belonged to and why it was on him. It had her scent.

I mean, that was an automatic thought that that at the instant I saw that coat and I thought, “Oh my gosh, for 50 years that’s been right there. Nothing done.” Hey, um, hi. Hi, Hope. This is Rob. You know, thank you very much. Honor to talk to you as always. Um uh could you tell us because you know you’re you’re the first you’re the one that was there and you know the reports that’s great but what was the weather like whenever uh that the the at the time you got up there. What was the weather like? Oh my gosh it I’ve never seen it rain so

hard on us all the way up there. I thought we’d never get there. It rained so hard and then then u it it kept doing it. It rained. I don’t know how long it rained. I just know that it uh it that night on the way up there that it I never like I said it it didn’t seem like I’d ever seen it rain so hard. I don’t know how my husband got us there.

And and when you got up there, when when you got up there to the area, were there any uh were there any canines or search dogs at that time when you first arrived at the scene? No, sir. No. Okay. Thanks. What do you know approximately when the canines did arrive to do the search? Uh um I believe maybe on Saturday, but Saturday it was so so bad. Just like foggy and all that.

They brought in the hoppers and everything, but they couldn’t use them because it’s so foggy. It it was a miserable another miserable day. Okay. So they couldn’t use them. Oh, and by the way, uh Simpson was down. He would come down to the uh station. They wouldn’t let us go up on the mountain. They said that we would h that we would hinder in the search. Okay.

We wanted to go but they wouldn’t let us. But they let him go. They let they let Simpson when he came down there he had to go on. I wasn’t even, you know, you’re not thinking that, oh, anything like that could be possible. You’re not even thinking like that whenever whenever your your child’s missing. My my concentration was on finding or so it didn’t dawn on me about the jacket when they was down there.

And then just my last question, did the did the kines that did show up, did they have any insignia or harnesses or anything that would indicate that they were official search and rescue dogs or do do you know anything about the background of the dogs? What what’s what’s your read on that? I’m just curious, you know, and I know some of it’s speculation.

I’m just curious. No, I I have no idea. I know that my husband tried to get them to uh to tried to get Jack Lan to get Billy Graham and get in touch with Billy Graham, get his dogs cuz we knew he u that was the dogs he had was strictly search dogs. So anyway, they told him they already had some.

So, did they have any did the dog that did did the dogs have any insignia on the harnesses or did they I mean anything that would indicate they were search and rescue dogs or um what kind of dogs were they? I’m I’m curious on that you seen you know they were just regular dogs you know that as far as I know now and they were uh not professional.

I know that there was no professional trained that uh strictly for hunting uh searching for someone. They were just dogs. Yeah. You know, you and I had spoke before about the the jewelry that’s always being brought up in these podcasts. Now, now to me, I don’t think that the jewelry had anything really to do with it. Um because there had been some statements that one of the girls had the jewelry and they continuously called you to to to to give it back and this and that.

What’s your what’s your take on that? That’s Did that Well, no. I I have to to me now while they were concentrating on the jewelry and the Oh, so much on that. I was wondering, well, why is such a big deal made out of the jewelry? It is Triny that is missing, you know. there. Why is it why are they not doing something to find ready? But then I can I know the source but anyway that is what I felt about it even though the it was expensive jewelry. It she uh designed it and uh had it made herself.

Tin made it for her. The star sapphire encased in diamonds. Yes, I can see why other girls would want it. And maybe they did get it, but they, you know, but no one ever called you called you telling you they had it. No. Okay. No, I didn’t even know that it there was any big deal about it, but there was it in the podcast.

I noticed there was oh that my name was entered in there in there that I knew all about it. No, I did not know about it and no one called me of and asked me anything as far as I know. I don’t even know that the police was ever told about it. I don’t know. Well, well, what what I tried to do when I wrote the book, too, was take a lot of these uh uh let’s just say uh rumors and and put them to rest. You know, the jewelry was one of them because nobody ever contacted you.

So, I I took the jewelry right out of the right out of the picture. Uh you and I had talked about uh her running off because she was pregnant. We know she wasn’t because she had her chart of when her uh her monthly thing was. We have a copy of that. So, we know that uh as far as um Robert Simpson uh I mean Robert uh Gibson senior running down to California with her. We knew he was never in California. Never went to California. Never been in California his entire life. No. Nor Nevada as well.

Well, we know that’s not true. We know uh we know uh your son didn’t contact uh uh Simpson Jr. uh to tell tell him to watch uh Treny because uh Robert was at boot camp. I mean uh Rob Junior was at boot camp so he couldn’t have made a call out. So he didn’t even know she was going on the trip, right? They had no the idea.

I think we’re going to go back kind of into the timeline since we really covered um like what Hope knew about what was going on with Treny up until she got onto the bus. Um, you know, we don’t have any witnesses here that saw her on the trail, right? At least, I mean, present. Um, so let’s go into the search for right now. Uh, and pick up on those scent trails real quick if we can, Rob. Yeah. So, so as she said, it had rained.

My big thing is the rain. In my opinion, and I’ve got more than 35 I’ve dealt with, I can’t tell you how many dog teams. Um, I think that it was severely degraded because of the rain that happened the night before and all the information. And as she said, they didn’t even sounds like they didn’t even I I don’t know what they did and didn’t do uh because there’s no action logs.

There’s no action reports. There should have been an action report done when they started these K9 searches. There’s none. Uh should have been what kind of breed of dog they used. There’s none. Um uh what was the dog’s behavior? All of this is very important to these searches and none of this was documented.

The only thing that I’ve read and some of it was handwritten was uh that the dogs located a scent at uh I I can’t remember the name of the area, Michael. You know what it is. And they all scented there. And and what happens is when it rains really badly, that scent gets degraded and it will wash away.

Yeah, it’s called the uh volatile organic compound VOCC’s. And you these are skin cells that you shed or or we call skin wraps. And those skin wraps come off your body and they can go anywhere during that rain. And what they do is they what’s called convergence. They converge uh into a certain area.

And it’s that that would be why all the dogs hit at that certain area. if there and if and if there’s somebody that’s got like she she mentioned uh Robert Simpson’s coat and please tell me if you think I’m getting off track but I’m just kind of trying to synopsis what what I’ve read about the case.

um if they did find a scent after the day later or something that could have been a planted scent or someone was in that area doing something my opinion maybe getting rid of the body I don’t know and then going to another area that’s maybe why and that could have been the the coat or maybe they’re trying to mislead there’s so many different variables here that it’s hard to say conclusively and give hard evidence the fact that okay, we found her sent here, whatever.

I I I just don’t see how they could have come to that conclusion. Well, we got kind of the situation is Treny went missing, right? And so there would have been a scent trail of her on that day. But we know now that there was some seriously heavy rain that occurred right after she vanished. And yet, when the search is ongoing, there are, I think, three different dogs picked up a scent trail heading north to the Appalachin Trail and then heading east toward a road.

But since those were, I mean, seemingly strong scent trails, uh, since they were picked up by three different dogs and and they were quite lengthy trails as I recall, would that be more indicative that that trail might have been a false trail by someone like could have been wearing the coat rather than it being uh like runoff from the rain? That’s a really good point. Yes, I believe that’s probably what happened.

I do believe that it was because there’s there’s no way that they could have picked up the the all the documentation I even read uh that’s in Mike’s book about the case. They they talk about the rain being quite heavy that night and uh going in the next day.

And then I think I read that the search didn’t even happen until gosh, Mike, how how long was it before the dogs the actual the actual dogs came uh the following day? But, uh, Treny, we figure we established a disappearance time of about, uh, 1500 hours, 3:00. Okay. Uh, the, uh, Ranger Station was contacted by, uh, a Paul Ward.

He was sitting out in him and his wife were sitting out in the, uh, parking lot of, um, uh, Clingman’s Dome, and, uh, a girl came running up to her to the car, bang on it. Hey, we need to contact somebody’s one of our classmates is missing. At that time, uh Ruth Ward had written a letter. Uh I believe it was to the parks I guess I I believe it was to the parks uh director saying that she described the rain at the time the girl came up to her car as terrible.

So, we know at least from let’s say 3:00 to the time that uh Hope and her husband got to the park, which was about 7 8:00, it was still raining. So, that’s why I say, you know, I mean, I I you know, we’ve done a lot of K9 tracks in my department in a big city and with rain like that, you know, it’s good to have a little little dampness. Oh, that’s optimal. That’s an that’s optimal. You’re talking flooding.

When you’re talking flooding, no. I I believe that the scent trail that they were following was uh probably from the probably from the jacket she was wearing. And more than likely the other two dogs were just, you know, sympathetically following the other dog who was following a trail. Well, that that that’s part of it, too. Yeah. I don’t mean to interrupt you, but you know, that’s another thing.

if they had more than one dog working the dogs sent on each other and you know we don’t even know what the experience level of any of these dogs are because there’s no documentation and all that should be put in the reports uh uh that Mike was there any I didn’t see any K9 reports at all other than the fact that do dogs arrived and then dogs sent it and there that’s it you know no I I believe what they were were it was just locals trying to help out and they were just hunting dogs you know they were you know they they were you know that’s that’s all they were uh

basically was hunt they were hunting dogs and none of them were none nobody were using it had been trained to to K9 searches there was no law enforcement background it was just a hey we’re here to help we brought a dog uh no no yeah and no harnesses no no markers I mean they would had markers on the harnesses that that you know plot where a scent was at you know you put a little flag down okay here’s here none of that is the reporting just is scant there’s just not much there, you know.

Well, that that’s why that’s why a lot of people had questioned me, well, why didn’t I use the NPS report? I pre, you know, I reviewed them, but you know, there was nothing significant about them. I mean, I already knew the dogs weren’t professional dogs, so that’s a hit and miss. I knew I know what the weather condition was.

And then again, we had the NPS or the park rangers who weren’t at that time certified police officers. They they weren’t uh trained in interviewing people. They weren’t uh trained really in much of anything. So unless there was an item of clothing or a body or something found, you know, I’m not concerned where the dogs hit or who did this or who did that because really in my mind it’s I’m looking at a crime and if there’s nothing pertaining to the crime there, this guy’s walking here. It’s it’s not significant to me. Well,

but I I kind of disagree with you there because it it is significant if Robert Simpson was wearing the coat and making a false trail, right? That’s a that’s a criminal part of it because we know he wasn’t really searching for her. He was just resenting. He was resenting the area. So, that wasn’t actually the search itself. That was his attempt.

You know, like I said, and it’s pretty smart, but you got to remember he belonged to the hunting club when he was in school. He haunted a lot. He knew the dark. Wow. Okay. He knew a lot. So, so if we go with this theory though and and you know that the one of the questions I have would be if Treny had only worn this coat for a few hours, you know, the day prior and Robert Simpson Jr. owned this coat. He wore it all the time.

Would there still be enough of Treny’s scent on that coat for the dogs to pick up Treny’s? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Remember work from 8 that morning till 3:00. I mean, that’s not a couple hours. That’s, you know, that’s that’s a good time span. Okay. So, we then we’ve established then we’ve established that he could wear that coat and they and the dogs could be tracking him and thinking they were tracking Treny.

But then the question becomes, um, why didn’t the and why didn’t the dogs hit on Robert Simpson Jr. if he was in the search area? Like, go right up to him. Well, we have Well, maybe they maybe they did. Maybe they did, you know, you know, but the thing is you you had people that were I mean, these were volunteers. These weren’t trained professionals.

They weren’t really trained in anything. And no one to this point in time uh ever documented that the FBI was even there. Well, first of all, first of all, well, first of all, number one, if the dogs are trained properly and and and they would have went up to him, there’s certain things that they would have put up to their handler that this is the person that, you know, that they’re they’re scenting on that object.

They would have sat, they would have alerted. There’s certain things, we call them K9 cues, that a handler that that goes back to, Nick, to the experience of the dog teams in general. Maybe they did. Um, and they just didn’t recognize if these dogs were trained properly. You know, my dogs when they sit on a person, I know they’re sitting on a person.

They’re going to paw them, okay? Or they’re going to set and they’re going to tell me, “Hey, come and check this guy.” You know, but we don’t know that. We don’t know that. We don’t know to what degree these handlers were were were trained. And we don’t know to what degree the dogs were trained.

A dog w a dog could have went up to him and not knowing these handlers not being law enforcement trained or I don’t know what the case was. They could have just, you know, fluffed that off and said, “Oh, look, you know, the dog Who knows? We we we’re kind of speculating there.” You know what I’m saying, Nick? Yeah.

And I could also see, you know, if the dog handler would obviously not be law enforcement and probably would not be thinking of a crime even. Exactly. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I could see all, you know, I mean, if you’re you’re in the area, if you’re in the area and I and you don’t and I’m not I’m not an experienced handler and my dog comes up to you and says, you know, dogs do that, you know, come up and you start petting him. Oh, good boy.

And you don’t know really what to look for. You know what I’m saying? Then that that goes back to that, you know, and and I I didn’t know if he was Robert Simpson. Was he in the area? Uh Mike after uh yeah he he had he had gone up there every day uh after the disappearance. He also showed up at the house every day. So so yeah there was plenty of plenty of time to um sent resent the area.

I mean and according to a lot of family members uh he didn’t really wash his clothes. So the her scent could have been on him too, you know. I mean not just on the go on him and and shedding the skin wraps could have happened. Yeah. I mean, Nick, that’s a great point and thank you for that. Yeah, excellent point.

Hey, Mike. Mike, in your in your book, one thing I question I have is in your book, you mentioned that uh uh she was seen going off the trail. I guess some classmates seen her going off the trail. What was that all about? Well, you know what they basically said was she and and here’s an important This is kind of an important thing.

Mike, Mike, why don’t we just have you explain your theory on the case kind of for the audience and it will include that answer in it. Can you do that? Just kind of like what you think happened on the trail. Like it may it may be a little it may be a kind of a I’ll try to keep it down to a reader’s digest version or short.

So, but basically so she was dropped off at the school that morning by her mother. Her mother obviously even at her age is sharp as attack. never met anybody sharper than her. She gets out of the She gets out of the car, wasn’t sure because of the weather if the trip was going to go on.

She goes into the school, meets Robert Simpson, who on the way out to the car takes his jacket off and exceptionally, really loudly, like he wants people to hear, oh, I’m giving her the jacket. I’m the good guy. Then it falls into, oh, her brother told me to watch her. I’m the good guy. There’s already a deflection there of some type of intent. There’s a deflection of some type of intent there.

So, they get off the bus. They go up to Andrew’s ball. Now, I think what happened up there is there was some type of a physical assault. uh whether it was uh just a a physical fight, whether it was a sexual assault, which I’m more inclined to believe because if you’re standing upright, to get vertical scratches from your groin down to your knee, a person has to be in a kneeling or laying down position, you know.

So, he he didn’t have he did not have those work pants on because if you look at them in the picture, and these were pants he wore on a daily basis, they were exceptionally thick. you know, so his p his pants had to be off, right? I mean, that’s the way I see it, you know? Yeah. Right. So, what happens is she she gets away and she’s she’s moving down the path.

Now, these people are these these other students are just thinking, “Oh, she’s going down there because, you know, she’s trying to get to the bus because maybe, you know, uh she’s just in a hurry to get to the parking lot, this and that.” No. What I believe happened was that some type of assault happened.

she was hurrying to find a a a safe haven in the parking lot and these other students just mistake it for oh she’s just trying to she’s just moving fast because that’s how she is and she was very athletic. Um so somewhere between the last time they saw her and they can’t even confirm she went off the path. That’s what the that that if if you read all the uh documentation it’s the last time I saw her.

Well, you know, you would know if she went off the path. I mean, if you’re only a, you know, 10 10 yards 30, you know, 30 40 ft behind her, you’re going to know. I think what happened was she was intercepted between between the point they last saw her and the parking lot, which was about 3:00 by our prime by our p our only primary p person of interest.

Uh he was exceptionally large kid and like one of the statements from one of his relatives uh I believe who told me I believe he attempted to uh make an advancement towards her. She didn’t uh she didn’t comply and he snapped because he he you got to understand at that time he he drank a lot. he was take he uh he had back issues so he was on other kind type of medication.

So but regardless of the case um I don’t think she her body ever left the park. I I think it in a statement that uh and he was always using Kelvin Bowman as kind of a um a fall back if Kelvin we know Kelvin Bowman was in the school.

We have the FBI confirmed it, the principal confirmed it, but he he kept referring to himself as or the suspect as if Kel Kev Kelvin Bellman was there, he would have done this. If Kelvin Bowman was here, he would have done that. Well, what he’s really telling me is his actions. He’s using uh Kelvin Bowman’s actions to describe what he did. So, uh, I I still I believe that the the body never left the park because in one statement he said if Kelvin Bowman had killed her, he would have dragged her down the hill, which it would have gone down the hill and taken her about a mile or two into the woods and buried her

where nobody would ever find her. Who’s going to make such a definitive answer like that? Yeah. And where did he say that? Uh, he said that he he he told that to Tina uh Gibson. It’s actually on a uh an NPS report and that that NPS report uh was a a type version uh that all of a sudden disappeared off the records two years ago, right? It’s not on the public version of that. But I but I sent you a copy. You saw that little blurb she wrote.

I mean I I was fortunate. I have friends in places that can find me stuff that, you know, that I can’t I I won’t publish because they ask me not to, but I can take the information and infer it, you know, like I was, you know, like I I was told it’s um uh what the heck did he say, we were we were just conducting a collateral damage by by uh giving you some information, but we can’t make ourselves seem like we’re guilty of anything.

And this is this isn’t a a civilian telling me this. Okay. I get it. Yeah. So, you know, you you know, it’s like uh um plausible deniability is what he told me. So, I said, “Okay, well, let me just, you know, give me a few blurbs of what went on.” And, you know, he did. And uh but it it all just you know even without that it just it all falls within the the guidelines of where I was going anyway.

So let’s let’s jump to Kelvin Bowman. Well wait before we go there too. I’m gonna I’m gonna we’ll go we’ll get there. I want to question you on your theory. You can question me. Um because I might know the answers. You might. Well, I’m just curious what you think about because, you know, starting at, you know, if Triny was assaulted at Andrew’s bald, um, the first thing I would think about is like, you know, she’s being assaulted, attacked, and essentially, uh, nobody heard any screaming and then when she’s on the trail, she doesn’t say anything about the attack to anyone. She’s moving

fast, but no one says that she looked, I don’t know, like she’d just been attacked or assaulted. What do you think’s going on there? Well, one, if she was assaulted, she had a heavy a jacket that was covering her most of her whole body.

So, any injuries, especially defensive, usually occur on the arms, the legs, or in the stomach area. I’m just talking more about like the traumatic thing at what, you know, that you might see on her face that she looked like she had recently just been traumatized essentially. Well, you know, everybody acts differently, you know. Yeah, everybody acts differently and she was pretty hardcore, you know.

She didn’t want she never went out and told her pe any of her uh people her business like stoic kind of like very stoic very very stoic and um you know I think what happened if that type of assault had gotten out it would have caused a lot of embarrassment for certain people. That’s a key point. Yeah. And and you you know that wasn’t going to happen. You know it just wasn’t going to happen.

So, and and so she’s on the trail. She’s she’s heading back to the bus moving fast. She’s passing people on the trail. Um so, you know, it is already a bit odd that she’s in such a hurry that she’s kind of passing all of her classmates. I’ll certainly give you that.

Um how do we how do we get to the point where Robert Simpson gets ahead of her to the point where he would be able to get her off the trail? Because you got to remember one, Robert Simpson knew that area like the back of his hand. He Why Why is that true? Be because there were several statements um in one of the documents that I read that said he had been there more than once, several times.

Okay, we already know he’s a hunter, so we know he can move fast. But you got to remember she sat down for about five minutes which would have gave him ample time to get around and get into a position. Now, there were there were a couple and I I call them rumors that, you know, they found cigarette butts and and beer cans and this and that, like people were lying and wait, but the probability of you knowing somebody’s going to be coming down that road, right, and you can sit there for an hour and this and that and drink a beer and smoke. No, that’s that’s that’s just not

that I’ve never seen anything corroborating that being found on the trail. Uh, so you’re kind of thinking that that that Simpson was just kind of skirting the trail, probably having to move pretty fast and um and he got ahead of her at some point. He got ahead of her and that’s it. But okay. Hey, Mike.

Mike, I want Mike, interrupting you one second on that thing about, you know, uh, her running up. Did he Did Simpson have any friends that were on this bus with him? I mean, you know, I’m talking to compl. I mean, someone that might have tried someone that might have tried to spook her down at the bottom and then maybe this happened after. Uh well, I know I know he had friends on there. I don’t know.

I don’t know if I you know, by talking to a few of them, I don’t know honestly if they would have had enough uh enough balls to do it. Well, I mean, just just say no, just like playing around and maybe maybe he had thought this through and said, you know, hey, we’re going to play a little, you know, and and you know, I I don’t I’m just, you know, wondering if that I’m just looking at all different facets here, you know.

I mean, the the one the one the one person I questioned because of a statement that he made in a newspaper uh was that of uh uh Gary Nichols. Gary Nichols. Uh he says that uh the last time we meaning more than one saw her in the park. Well, wait a minute. I have the bus the bus log. Dude, you weren’t on it. So, what were you just happen to be doing in the park that day? What? Did you just like have a vision? Right.

So, it makes it sound certainly like he’s claiming that he was in the park but not on the field trip, which is very odd. And he says that right in the paper. I think that the the the most difficult part that I have with uh fully accepting um the the the idea that she was attacked is that so we have a few a few witnesses on the trail that said they saw Treny and they kind of maybe looked away and they looked back and she was gone kind of like she but they saw her and then she was gone.

And if Robert Simpson was there, he got ahead of her and he pulled her off the trail. I’m thinking you’re going to hear rustling bushes, a struggle. You’re going to hear breaking of branches. Maybe maybe she’ll maybe she screams or tries, you know, a muffled struggling sound, something that announces that an attack is taking place because there’s kids right there.

Well, we but you see there’s there was no exact point where where she disappeared. They say they lost sight of her. She could have tra I mean you’re talking about maybe five or six kids. You know, you have a motor vehicle accidents, 10 people see it. You’re getting 10 different stories.

So maybe she had made it past that point and they thought they saw her go off the trail. Maybe she never really went off the trail. Maybe she just kept going down. And you know, we had talked about the noise if when she was assaulted this and that. Well, I can walk down to the bottom of my yard, fire a shot, and nobody’s going to hear hear it. So, if they’re in the woods, somebody screams.

Young teenage kids are always running around screaming. Who’s going to think anything different? you know, and then a guy that big, she comes around the trail, he puts his hand over her mouth, she she’s just he’s he’s gonna pick her up like like a sack of potatoes and do whatever he wants, you know, and maybe somebody did see it.

Maybe they were just afraid of this guy’s father and him, too, and just didn’t want to say anything. And Robert Simpson, uh, he he regularly carried a fairly large knife around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s in the picture. Not only was it in the picture, but it was also mentioned by uh Tina Gibson, right? And some of the other schoolmates that he he used to carry he used to tape it.

He used to actually tape it to the inside of his pant leg, but you can see it protruding through the pant leg when you look at the picture. And he wore those same pants every day. So that like that’s kind of kind of weird. But you know, so so this is the way I look at it. You have a lot of different type of evidence. We have physical evidence.

We have the comb. We have the scratches. We have the jacket. Okay. We have three good pieces of physical evidence that he shouldn’t have been pro in possession of. Uh Rob will tell you those vertical scratches, they’re defensive scratches.

Him and I have been between both of us, we’ve been in law enforcement for 75 years. I don’t think I don’t think you’ll get any argument from anyone that Oh. Oh, no. We already have. We already have. Let let me say no one credible, okay, is going to say that like a series of vertical scratches. So So and then your point of, you know, why didn’t she scream if she was, you know, when he got off the Maybe she maybe she was lur maybe she was lured. I mean that’s a really good I mean maybe there wasn’t a struggle.

And and you know sometimes when when you go to a crime like when people see or panic they shut down. Guess what? You know, we we both know eyewitness accounts are the worst the very worst the worst piece of evidence. They’re all the time they’re they’re the wrong clothing, the wrong description, the wrong race even.

So Mike and I will tell you, you go to any law enforcement, they’ll tell you eyewitness accounts are the worst things you can go by, right? And and we don’t we don’t know their perspective. We don’t know how far away they were. We don’t know if you learn or we don’t even know if that’s you know, we don’t know really what happened in eyewitness accounts.

when I take reports, those are something that I I I take with a grain of salt because if I if I took everybody’s eyewitness account on something, uh, I’d probably be arresting the wrong people. So, right. And and you know, I feel the same way.

That’s why what I did was I use this kind of a I use the physical evidence, the non-physical evidence in this case was pretty pretty uh damning in itself. I mean, all of a sudden, the guy that has never shown up at the Simpson house, but once in two years to go to a football game shows up three times. Yeah. Two on one day, one on the other.

So, what what’s happening here is the the non-physical, you’re having behavioral changes. The statements that he’s making, and then we had the the statement the the one of the Luke who does a statement analysis look at him go, “Oh, no, no, this is this this is bad. there there’s red flags all over the place. Uh so based on that, I mean, you know, you have physical evidence, you have non-physical evidence, you have behavioral changes, you have an somebody professionally analysizes linguistics saying, “No, no, this is these statements are not.

” I mean, I think the best evidence for this is obviously the the comb and the coat are top of the list, right? But in addition to that, you since Robert Simpson was his behavior for sure because he was I mean he must have been driving day and night to be getting from the park to Treny’s house back to the ranger station so that he could be in all places at once to be able to hear and know what was going on.

Yeah, he he asserted him he asserted himself in the investigation. You know, he was fishing he was fishing for evidence. But besides that, there’s like the fact that that you have the picture of Robert Simpson Jr. and he’s standing next to Gary Nichols, a guy a guy who said that he was in the park the same day, but he’s not on the field trip.

Right. So why and and he’s friends with Simpson. He’s there searching with him. Right. Right. Hey, Michael, what I I don’t get the Nicholls. I don’t know if I read that part. Can you kind of give me Well, you know, you know how I found him? I so I was reading all these articles and I see the one with uh Simpson and the in in the jacket trend he was wearing.

I said, “Holy right? What did we just find?” And uh then I see a statement made I think it was either in that article or a day later, some some student named uh Gary Nichols saying, “Uh, we we last saw her. His English wasn’t very good. We last saw her in the park and she was happy and blah blah blah blah blah.

What do you mean we? We meaning two people. She disappeared on the eth. So, we know it wasn’t the nth or the 10th. And then you’re saying we as on like you and a friend saw her but you’re not on the bus list. So, how’d you get there? Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. He basically he basically said that he you know he said we were there and that we were joking with her or something like that and she was seemed happy and uh but he basically placed himself on the trail right there but he’s not on the bus list and that bus list was made for law purposes

essentially a lawsuit uh that bus list I would assume is quite accurate because it was made by the people who knew who went on the field trip. I I agree with you. I don’t I think the body’s on that wherever, you know, wherever the assault wherever the assault happened or whatever. But uh uh he had to have had help disposing of that body, don’t you think? Yeah.

You know, well, and then we got a guy who’s not on the field trip who’s in the park. There you go. There you go, baby. Okay, so that is all the new evidence in this case, and it is quite compelling. It is one thing to read about something that hopeet said, but it’s quite another thing to actually hear the words come out of her own mouth.

She is absolutely positive that the coat in this photograph is the same one she saw Treny wearing the day she disappeared. And I’ve tried to look for any possible alternatives to that conclusion. Like, what if Hope is simply wrong? Or what if Simpson Jr. had another coat that was virtually identical? Those are things I can’t rule out entirely, obviously.

But taken as a whole with all of the other evidence, this is pretty substantial stuff. You have the coat, the comb, the scratches, the associate, Gary Nichols, who shouldn’t have been there in the first place. You have Simpson Jr. running around frantically gathering information after the disappearance.

You have him going to the Gibson house and pllying Tino with random theories. All of this evidence is pointing at the guilt of Robert Simpson Jr. In reviewing my last video on Treny Gibson, I was reminded of a point that I think reinforces this new evidence involving the coat. In that video, I had a discussion with Mike Buchard and Laura Rristie.

Laura has also done a great deal of research on the Treny Gibson case. In that conversation, Laura recounts a discussion she had with someone who knew the students from Beardarden High School. She then talked about the rumors and theories among the students after Treny disappeared. Those students, Treny’s classmates, reportedly said that Robert Simpson Jr.

somehow had his coat back after Treny disappeared wearing it. I’ll play that portion of the video real quick. If you’ve listened to the missing podcast, you’ve heard me talk about my friend Jim. Um, Jim attended East Tennessee State University at the same time that some of the Bearden grads attended and they were the class that would have graduated with Treny Gibson in 1978.

And the theory among them was Treny had gotten into an altercation with some of the Bearden students, a small group of them, maybe maybe three kids, maybe four. She was wearing Robert Gibson’s or sorry, Robert Simpson’s coat at the time that this happened and she got into an altercation with them.

Um, somebody held her but because she was wearing Robert Simpson’s coat and it was several sizes too big for her. Um, they took her ring from her um, they potentially took her comb as well. They held her arms, but because this coat was so large, she was able to peel out of it, she took off running and she got lost in the underbrush and thicket and everything that’s in that uh wooded area in the vast region of the Smoky Mountains.

And that’s why they never found her. But Robert um Simpson apparently according to this group of beard alumni he got his coat back and possibly the comb was in the pocket or fell to the ground and that’s how he he gained possession of the comb. So I find this really interesting because this was said and suspected before the discovery of the newspaper photo and before gave her testimony and identified the coat.

Treny’s classmates seemingly noticed that Simpson got his coat back after the disappearance. When I initially heard this during the conversation with Laura, all I could do was really chalk it up to rumor. There’s an abundance of rumor in this case, and I’m sure most of it is probably untrue.

But in the case of the coat, what was once considered rumor now actually has evidence to back it up. I find that this really helps to reinforce the new information we’ve heard in this video. Still, I’m not without hesitation on certain things. I do wonder how Simpson Jr. could have pulled Treny off that trail without anyone noticing, without making some odd sounds, but it’s a fair point to make that there would have been a lot of noise on the trail that day with so many students walking around on it. There would have been kids laughing, talking, and screaming. There would have been the rustling of brush, crunching of

leaves, and breaking of twigs. Maybe he was able to pull it off without someone hearing. I suppose I do also have to consider that he may have had help. There is no clear explanation as to why Gary Nichols would claim to have been on the trail that day when he wasn’t on the field trip roster.

We know very little about this guy other than that he was friends with Simpson Jr. Buchar did try to track Nicholls down, but like pretty much everyone else in this case, he is now dead. So, Robert Simpson Jr. is dead. Gary Nichols is dead and Kelvin Bowman is dead. Anyone who was likely involved in Treny’s disappearance is now deceased. But that doesn’t mean the truth can’t be known to everyone.

There has always been countless theories out there about what happened to Treny. There have been countless rumors out there, too. Rumors which lead you down dead ends. So far, this is the best evidence I have seen in this case, which actually points toward at least one suspect. I don’t know if I can fully explain how Robert Simpson Jr.

pulled this off. And by that, I mean how he got Treny off the trail without anyone noticing, but given all of the other evidence pointing to him, I don’t know that we necessarily need that answer. Again, the coat, the comb, and the scratches, how do we explain that stuff if not by foul play? And I realize that much of this is dependent on Hope’s testimony. That’s why I wanted you to hear it directly from her.

You can decide how much credibility you want to place on Treny’s mother. Frankly, after speaking with her, I found her to be very credible. All of this happened decades ago, and she was sick when I talked to her, but she was still very sharp. She’s very confident in what she’s saying.

If you learn enough about Triny’s case, people tend to always come to the conclusion that it was the result of foul play. All of the other alternatives just don’t seem to fit very well. So, the question has always been who did it? Well, I think there is a very strong case to be made that it was Robert Simpson Jr. who was protected by his powerful father.

Let’s not forget that the FBI did investigate this and they are still hiding that investigation to this day. They wouldn’t even release it to Hope Gibson when she asked for it. I would bet that if they did release those files, it would seal the deal on this case if this new evidence hasn’t done that already. So, let me know what you think about all of this in the comments below.

Do you think Robert Simpson Jr. is the prime suspect? Do you think this is good evidence? If you’re interested in learning more about all of this, I’ll put the link to Mike Buchard’s book, Treny, in the description box below. It has plenty of additional detail, context, and investigation.

I also want to thank Mike, Rob, and especially Hope for taking the time to come on the channel and talk all of this out. And until next time, thanks for watching. [Music] [Music]